Interview with George Kronnisanyon Werner, Minister of Education, Liberia, 2015 to 2018

Andy Brock : You were Minister during the time when the Partnership Schools for Liberia program was launched. Was this part of an overall drive for education innovation in Liberia ?

George Werner : Liberia had just emerged from a 14-year civil war, which had devastating effects on schools and professionals. When President Sirleaf took office, the focus was on rebuilding the education sector. However, the Ebola outbreak disrupted progress, leaving children out of school for six months. My task was to restore confidence and reopen schools. Parents and teachers expressed a desire for more than just a return to pre-Ebola conditions; they wanted a complete reset. I toured the whole country talking to parents, teachers and pupils.

UNICEF reported that Liberia had the highest out-of-school population ratio in the region. In summary, my role involved navigating the aftermath of Ebola, addressing educational challenges, and responding to the urgent need for positive change in Liberia’s education system.

AB: How did the Luminos Second Chance Programme fit into that ?

GW: The initiative was designed in response to those needs in the community I described. The program was carefully designed, with input from various stakeholders, to ensure it was suitable for the local context. This initiative was a partnership that was easy to form due to the shared goals of the parties involved.

AB: Was the Ministry involved in the design of the Second Chance Programme to ensure it was suitable for the Liberian context ?

GW: The programme was designed with the knowledge that children out of school are in communities and that parents want their children to be learning. The programme was co-designed to place learning spaces in these communities and use teachers from the communities, who are invested in the success of their own children.

AB: The programme recruited teachers from the community and created a pathway for these teachers to become government teachers, why ?

GW: The Second Chance Programme adds value to teacher training and helps reinforce the government system by bringing on board passionate teachers. It helps the government reform itself. This also helps students transitioning to government schools to find a similar quality of teacher in the government classroom. So, yes we ensured that community teachers had a route into the formal system.

AB : In many countries I’ve worked in, there has been resistance to the kinds of changes you have been talking about. Trade unions often object, and Treasury officials are unhappy because they think they’re going to have to start paying more money for more teachers. Did you experience similar resistance in Liberia?

GW : Yes, I did face resistance. When I joined the ministry, it was in the aftermath of Ebola. I knew I had just two years left of the second term of an outgoing president. I was always concerned about what one could actually accomplish in two years. So, I went in as a bulldozer which has its advantages and disadvantages. I took on a lot in terms of reform, some of which were radical in nature and began to be very controversial.

My relationship with the teachers’ union, both in Liberia and internationally, was not good. They saw that I was destabilising the status quo. The union tends to focus on degrees and qualifications, whereas we were advocating for smart young people with a high school diploma and a West African Senior School Certificate to go through a ten-month programme and then teach the basics to kids.

The controversy was that the teachers union positioned their message as a dislocation of teachers in the classroom and devaluing what teaching was all about. There were protests, and letters were written to all sorts – even John Kerry, who was the US Secretary of State at the time. I do remember Tony Blair even came to see me to encourage me because he had tried a similar programme in the UK and faced similar resistance.

I agree that the government bears the primary responsibility for the education of its citizens and creating the right environment. However, I believe that the private sector ought to have a voice. Part of what the private sector does is to streamline spending, ensure accountability, and deliver quality. That was my argument.

AB: Given the high number of out-of-school children in Liberia, what were your aspirations for the Second Chance programme?

GW: I wanted this programme to serve as an example not just for Liberia, but for the region. I wasn’t expecting Luminos to take on the entire challenge, but to demonstrate that children can learn in a joyful, playful way with a passionate teacher.

AB: What were the strongest and weakest features of the programme?

GW: The strength of the Luminos programme is its ability to create a joyful learning atmosphere. It demonstrates that children can learn effectively when provided with a passionate teacher who shows up every day with a plan.

As for weaknesses, noticed in the Luminos Ethiopia programme that students who excelled in these schools often find the quality of teaching and classroom organisation in government schools to be lacking. I think a meaningful partnership with the government is necessary to address and improve this situation.

AB Has the Luminos programme in Liberia had any positive influence on government schools, just by being there ?

GW : I haven’t looked into this aspect yet, but the original intention was for Luminous and other innovation hubs to have a “contagious effect” on other schools – in a positive sense !

AB : I want to ask about replicability and scale. The Luminos programme costs $180 per child per year and even using the lower estimates there are currently about 260,000 kids out of school. So, it would cost about $45m to “solve” this problem. That's a lot of money for Liberia, but it's not a lot of money for a donor or for a partnership between the government and the World Bank, for example. And if you spread it over five years or ten, it becomes a more manageable number. Is that realistic? You've been a government Minister ; you've sat in those shoes ; you know what the budgets are like. Why couldn’t you solve the problem of Liberia’s out-of-school children over a 5-year period, if you had help from and funding from elsewhere ?

GW : You have to understand that policy is not dictated by evidence, especially in physically constrained environments with competing needs. You have post-civil war, post-Ebola, and post-Corona environments. Where there are competing needs. Sometimes evidence is ignored. The other aspect is the political aspects where human capital development is not as tangible as building a bridge or a house for a politician. The politician can show a bridge and the villagers will clap and he will get he or she will get voted. But, to demonstrate that supporting a kid that's coming through the education system for 12-15 years you get no votes.

Let me give you an example. I did a comprehensive education strategy called “Getting to Best”, which was designed to use evidence to convince decision-makers of the need for more funding in the education sector. I personally went to Finance Minister and the President, and I told them “I know your policy is to direct borrowing to infrastructure projects, but you have a human capital problem. If you don’t solve the human capital problem your infrastructure projects will be meaningless within a few years”. I presented the evidence and they became convinced. It ignited some IDA funding from Liberia’s envelope. So, advocacy is really important – your need to present real evidence to decision-makers in ways that they can get on board with.

AB: Yes, it’s also about seizing ‘windows of opportunity’ and being bold in advocating for change.

GW: Yes, but, because I was making controversial decisions everyone in Liberia was talking about education !

AB: So, is it doable to address all the out-of-school children in Liberia ? How will Liberia’s development progress if this is not solved ?

GW: Sure, it’s complex but with the right combination of elements coming together in unison it could be done.

AB : You’ve described how the Lumos programme could provide an example for other governments to replicate in the region. But, will they actually do so?

GW : As far as SDG 4 (education) is concerned, it seems the world has given up. There’s no momentum or aligned funding.

AB : Why do you think that?

GW : It seems undoable when you look at the big picture, there are about 250 million children out of school worldwide.

AB: How would you persuade the current Minister or President to deal with the problem of out-of-school children or to raise quality?

GW : The current Minister in Liberia is taking steps similar to what I did. She is touring the entire country, getting closer to the people, and seeing the conditions children live in.

AB : But many ministers are politicians, and they have to think about re-election. Are ministers bolder at the beginning of their terms of office than they are at the end?

GW : We need to address the state of education urgently, just like we do with health crises like Ebola and COVID-19. When a solution works in medicine, it’s made available to many. The same should apply to education.

AB : What about the scalability and cost of programs like Luminos ?  They’re effective – but after 5 years are still reaching only 6,000 children. And the cost per child is high.

GW : I understand the concern. But consider this - would you rather spend that money to produce a productive citizen, or let that child roam the streets and possibly end up in jail?  We need to look at the long-term societal costs. It’s not just about the immediate cost of the program. The ultimate goal is to ensure every child has access to quality education. We need solutions that are effective, scalable, and sustainable.